New York – Harboring Some Admiration for Bernie, And Less For Sully

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    Rabbi Avi ShafranNew York – Something tells me I won’t make any new friends (and might even lose some old ones) if I confess to harboring some admiration for Bernard Madoff.

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    And to make things worse, I can’t muster much for Captain Chesley “Sully” Sullenberger, the pilot who safely landed a full commercial airliner in the Hudson River back in January.

    Let me try to explain. Please.

    Mr. Madoff committed a serious economic crime on an unprecedented scale for such wrongdoing, and in the process ruined the financial futures of numerous people and institutions, including charitable ones, worldwide. There can be no denying that.

    Yet I can’t quite bring myself to join the large, loud chorus of those who have condemned him to – to take Ralph Blumenthal’s judgment in The New York Times Magazine – the Pit, the deepest circle of Dante’s Inferno. Others have devised and publicly proclaimed creative and exquisite tortures of their own for the disgraced businessman – Woody Allen fantasized Madoff being attacked by clients reincarnated as lobsters, and Elie Wiesel wished the investor confined to a solitary cell and forced to watch his victims on a screen bewail their changed fortunes. The fury of the bilked has yielded opprobrium and loathing that isn’t visited on mass murderers.

    I think the revulsion may say more about the revolted – and our money-obsessed and vengeance-obsessed society – than it does about Madoff. His crime, after all, was really remarkable only for its longevity and its scope. The Torah teaches that stealing is a sin, but it doesn’t differentiate between misappropriating a million dollars and pilfering a dime. And as to the sheer number of people defrauded by the thief of the moment, well, anyone who cheats on his federal income tax is defrauding 300 million of his fellow citizens. Few though, in such cases, invoke Dante.

    What is more, Madoff likely began his crime spree in the hope of rewarding, not swindling, investors, and by the time it became clear he wouldn’t be able to do that, he was already deeply entangled – and daily becoming more entangled – in the web he wove.

    None of that, though, is to belittle the great pain Mr. Madoff caused, and is certainly no cause for affording the iniquitous investment broker respect. No, what I admire about him has to do with his owning up to his crime.

    Think about it. The man knew for years that his scheme would eventually come apart and that prosecution loomed, yet he took no steps to flee, huge bribe in hand, to some country lacking extradition treaties. Idi Amin, we might recall, died of old age in luxury. Madoff’s millions, moreover, could have easily bought him a new face and identity papers; he could spent his senior years tanned and well-fed among the sunbirds of Miami Beach.
    Instead, though, he chose to essentially turn himself in and admit guilt. He apologized to his victims, acknowledging that he had “deeply hurt many, many people,” and adding, “I cannot adequately express how sorry I am for what I have done.”
    No one can know if those words reflect the feelings in his heart, but I don’t claim any right to doubt that they do. And facing one’s sins and regretting them is the essence of teshuvah – which we are all enjoined to do for our personal aveiros, however small or large.
    No such sublimity of spirit, though, was in evidence in any of the public acts or words of Mr. Sullenberger. He saved 155 lives, no doubt about it, and is certainly owed the hakoras hatov of those he saved, and of their families and friends. And he executed tremendous skill.
    But no moral choice was involved in his act. He was on the plane too, after all; his own life depended on undertaking his feat no less than the lives of others. He did what anyone in terrible circumstances would do: try to stay alive. He was fortunate (as were his passengers) that he possessed the talents requisite to the task, but that’s a tribute to his training, and to the One Who instilled such astounding abilities in His creations (and Whose help the captain was not quoted as acknowledging). Basketball players are highly skilled, too – and heroes, in fact, to some. But I have never managed to understand that latter fact.
    Sully has reportedly inked a $3 million book deal with HarperCollins, and is also planning a second book of inspirational poems; Bernie, likely for the rest of his life, will languish in jail.
    That may make societal sense, but personally, I’m still unmoved by the pilot, and, at least somewhat, inspired by the penitent.


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    181 Comments
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    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    AGREED!!!

    End of Days
    End of Days
    14 years ago

    What is up with this statement? Does this person not understand that Madoff’s entire lengthy apologetic was solely an attempt to exculpate his family from prosecution.

    You wouldn’t write such garbage if YOUR hard earned $10m bucks was stolen and your family was reduced to poverty overnight.

    Pathetic, unnecessary lamdus to prove a stupid point.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    Stupid article.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    I agree 1000%.

    BS
    BS
    14 years ago

    WHAT NONSENCE!!!!!!!!!!!!
    the fact that bernie admitted his crimes doesn’t make him admirable!!!!!!!!!!
    & Sully is non-jewish!!! No reason to expect him to believe in Hashem!
    & u still have tainos?!!!!!!!!!!?????????
    what a stupid opinion u have!!!!!!!!

    Yossi
    Yossi
    14 years ago

    Drayt vee ah litvak! Absolutely senseless!

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    The story of the Ben Ish Chai identifying a thief by accusing the one who sympathised with a thief is well known…

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    Rabbi Shafran is clueless! Bernie confessed, in order to save his family. No trail no further investigation. They were elbow deep in this crime, but by confessing and avoiding trial, he goes to jail and they get to keep secret millions, perhaps as much as a billion!
    Rabbi Shafran just became another ‘victim’ of a Madoff fraud.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    This articele is an embarassment to frum people. Why does every idiot with a pen need to put words to paper just to prove that he is such an amazing guy he knows how to drey zich out of the box. Sometimes the box is right, some people should spend more time in it!

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    I actually think this is article provides an interesting and thoughtful perspective. The best lesson to take away from this is who are we to judge?

    enough
    enough
    14 years ago

    keep you stupid opinions to yourself. How could you be s insensitive to issue such an insensistive misinformed statement.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    And… this guy is the Director of Public Affairs for Agudath Israel of America… oiy vey uz mir.

    Moishie
    Moishie
    14 years ago

    I vehemently disagree with you on both points.

    Bernie has already caused several people to take their lives. His apology is worthless to these dead people and to the lives he ruined. “Oni Choshuv K’Meis.” He does not have the financial capacity to accept responsibility for his atrocities. The lip service apology cannot reverse an iota of the damage to society. He remains a villain that perpetuated unprecented levels of harm to society.

    Captain Sully not only landed superbly with Hashem’s help. He exemplified extraordinady leadership skills. He remained calm and collected throughout the entire ordeal. He kept the crew and passengers calm. The rescue and disembarkment was in an orderly fashion. There was no panic and pandemonium due to his skillful handling of the situation despite the numerous odds that those aboard faced. If you read or listen to his speeches, he conducts himself in a very humle manner and credits his crew for much of the glory bestowed upon him. He is a true hero whom we can all emulate.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    what are you talking about Bernie was still trying to steal after he was arrested i tried to mail the jewelry remember he didnt feel bad about anything hes a serial thief

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    I have to agree with the previous 7 comments – this article is not only sad but illogical. Madoff knowingly stole for over a decade from thousands of people, he took innocent people’s money knowing that he will never be able to pay them back. He ruined entire lives, businesses and foundations. One important thing the author forgot to mention is that Sully Sullenberger went back into the plane – twice – with below freezing waters up to his waist to make sure every passenger was off the plane. That was not about saving his own lives. It was about saving others.

    Shmuel
    Shmuel
    14 years ago

    I hear, I wouldn’t say I agree with every thing he says but I wouldn’t call it nonsense either, but I hear what what he is saying (The author did make some good points).

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    OY! Enough articles about Madoff!

    Grammar Girl
    Grammar Girl
    14 years ago

    Something tells me that if a member of the Agudath Yisroel’s Trustees’ Circle Million Dollar Super-Rich Koved-Freser Round-Table was on US Air Flight 1549, the Agudah, with the support of Rabbi Shafran, would have hosted an elaborate dinner Lichvod Captain Sully.

    This article can me summarized with one word: FEH, FEH, and FEH (albeit repeated three times).

    Call a spade a spade
    Call a spade a spade
    14 years ago

    What an idiot!! The author revealed his true colors. It takes a certain kind of person to be able to handle landing a plane in the hudson . It takes a huge amount of dicipline and thinking of other people. He had to make a desicion not to jepordize lives on the ground. What made him a hero was him walking up and down the isles after the plane landed to make sure everyone was off .

    Bernie Madoff, if he could have lived his life looking over his shoulder every second he would have. If he is no longer from the social elite and hiding in some country in south america, jail was a better option. He was cornered into a hole therefore he confessed.

    How in the world can u insinuate that Capt Sully is not a admirable as Bernie Madoff. This is the shoresh of where some of us frum people have lost sight of what is right and wrong. And to think this pea brain represents the Agudah . What a shame!

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    Rabbi Shafran,
    You have exemplified the thinking of the current society in which we find ourselves: what’s right is wrong and what’s wrong is right.
    Madoff will serve time for his wrongdoing and will lose much of his gashmius. Sully will be enriched b’gashmius as a result of an act of G-d and why shouldn’t he ? Isn’t this a perfect example of hashgacha protis ?

    CB
    CB
    14 years ago

    While this article is not that well written (quite a surprise from Avi Shafran), I agree with his point about Madoff though not so much with the dramatical comparison to Capt. Sully. What Madoff did was sick but was not very different from what so many “respected” (by most) members of this community and others have done, it was just much larger in scale. No I don’t respect Madoff at all (and neither, I suspect does Avi Shafran) but the point is we all love self-righteous anger. Let’s not go to extremes but hold all to the same standards.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    abi gehacked in kup arein

    CBS
    CBS
    14 years ago

    some people will say anything to get quoted and see their name in print, but it is up to news organizations such as yours to weed such persons out and not to give them the ability to have their stupidity disseminated.

    PMO
    PMO
    14 years ago

    We should be thanking H” over and over and over again the he put Sully on THAT plane… on THAT day…. at THAT time. It was no accident. This man had a presence of mind like most of us cannot even imagine, in the most dire of circumstances to think through 3 different plans in a matter of minutes while air traffic controllers were yapping in his ear about his options, he made a life and death decision and saved 150+ lives. H” gave him that ability… and H”, through this man spared the lives of these people.

    That kind of courage is not just survival instinct as the writer suggests. It is the hand of H” working through him.

    Tzudreiter
    Tzudreiter
    14 years ago

    Rabbi Shafran,
    The following words from your article are probably the only words that make sense …… “Something tells me I won’t make any new friends (and might even lose some old ones)”

    In short ….. Se’yog La’Chochmo Shteeku

    Chacham Min Hamanishtana
    Chacham Min Hamanishtana
    14 years ago

    I find Rabbi Shafran’s argument unconvincing and short sighted. I believe Madoff didn’t run away since he thought the scheme would continue until he died. And although Madoff comitted the same issur of genaiva that others commit, there is no way he can pay it back. And teshuva for genaiva is not accepted until payback occurs. Furthermore, Madoff has not proven helpful in providing the government all the places that the money is kept. So his confession is just a means to protect his family, and is worthless to me.

    Concerning Sully, Rabbi Shafran didn’t mention that Sully also runs a company devoted to safety, http://safetyreliability.com. He deserves admiration not only for landing the plane safely, but for also taking the time to train himself and others on safety issues. He worked to be fully prepared to handle every unusual situation. He is a competent professional, and I don’t encounter too many of those. I keep a picture of his plane floating in the Hudson in my cubicle at work; I too want to keep my company afloat despite challenging times.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    “rabbi” shafran- u are very “krum”. go get some sense. Sullenberger is a hero and madoff will never get out of gehenom. Don’t u know what is says “din prutah kdin mea’h ” to show the severity of stealing even one penny??? have u lost your mind???? and by bashing sully who “SAVED” lives and supporting someone who “RUINED” lives you think yo’re making ANY sense at all?????

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    Strange article. Whether Shafran’s right or wrong, the piece just makes him look bad. He should stick to discussing these issues at his shabbos table instead of potentially making a chillul Hashem. Some things are better left unpublished.

    One honest Yekke
    One honest Yekke
    14 years ago

    Dear Rabbi Shafran,
    Your statement is ANTI-CAPITALIST—it stinks of envy of another citizen’s book contract (in which an American publisher anticipates hugely popular sales and reasonably agrees to pass on part of the profits to the author).
    Your statement is IMMORAL—it twists the Torah moral that pilfering one dime is as bad as stealing a million dollars (you turn it upside down! You claim that stealing a million is merely as bad as pilfering a dime!) so would you also make the crazy claim that Torah says murdering a million people is “merely” as bad as murdering one person?
    Your statement is OBNOXIOUS–it shows no understanding of why good people admire and try to emulate all who excel in doing their jobs with skill & talent & perseverance (no matter how “ordinary” the job: in sports, or in medicine, or in carpentry, or in teaching, or in piloting an airplane).
    You statement is UNCIVIL–it shows no rachmanes: the ideal that causes good people to give tzedakah to strangers (the same ideal that makes millions of strangers feel happy to read the story of a pilot landing his passengers safely on the water in New York during an emergency).
    Your views are a SHANDA.
    If only you had kept your mouth shut instead of telling the world that your nasty views represent other American Jews.
    Sincerely,
    ——An honest Jew who behaves as though it is wrong to steal even one dime when no one is watching
    (and I will probably buy the book about the pilot just IN ORDER TO REWARD a decent American citizen for performing his job in such a reliable manner).

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    BS”D

    Avi Shafran is usually far more logical and coherent than this. I guess he is also busy with Pesach preparations. Sorry to say but this article should be burned with his chometz.

    Concerned Member
    Concerned Member
    14 years ago

    This is a very upsetting article. I know of quite a few people who lost money to Madoff’s theft and I know others involved in various charitable institutions who now have less money to help with because of Madoff’s theft. Ask those people if they care that his PR person told him to read off some empty apology. I’ll save you the time. They don’t. Neither do I. Better not to apologize than to fake it. Madoff, his wife and his children were all involved and they are all criminals.

    As far as Sully goes, Rabbi Shafran is upset that he didn’t thank G-d? Who is he to discuss the man’s beliefs? Maybe he doesn’t believe in G-d? Does that matter? What matters is that the guy saved lives through his skills, made sure to check the entire plane before getting to safety himself, and insisted on his entire crew being given thanks and respect just as well as he himself. To me that sounds like someone deserving of our admiration.

    I have no idea what the point of this article is. I have no idea why Rabbi Shafran would write this, and certainly no idea why he would have it published. It is bizarre, nonsensical and makes me question his motives and his sanity.

    What a train wreck.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    Mr. Madoff never invested the money at all. He had no intent to do well initially. He just thought he would die first before he gets caught.

    Sully recognized his responsibilities. Note his behavior after the plane landed to ensure everyone was safe.

    When you have nothing to write write nothing

    sane
    sane
    14 years ago

    And this man represents Agudas Yisroel? I am inclined to revoke my membership. Perhaps we need new blood there.

    chaim
    chaim
    14 years ago

    never in my life have i read such twisted idiotic and childish logic,
    Avi you realy have made a complete fool of yourself,shame on you
    you have given chareidi jewry a black eye with this to vomit article

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    Truly the article of a very disabled thinking mind. Disgrace to have him as member of Agudah and represent Torah Jews outlook on life,
    Madoff’s many investors came from “feeder” funds with specific assurances that the
    monies “were not going to Madoff”. The returns were purposely lower than most competitors and most individuals and institutions believed their monies were invested when in fact for over 13 years they were stolen. These people never stole on their taxes and those that do did not cause the death of many as the suicides
    of madoff’s victims are beginning.
    Comparing the $50 billion fraud killing so few individuals and charities, to tax cheaters whose implications are so minimal(while equally wrong) affected is really distorted thinking. Also, saving peoples lives thru ability while also saving his own does not take away from the miracle and feat of keeping a cool head.
    Admitting guilt and feeling remorse , when facing jail, means nothing when one did it for almost two decades. It was premeditated and carried out for many years so who cares what his original intention was!!!He destroyed forever the lives of thousands and caused the death of many. Rabbi Shafran should do more teshuvah for his article than Madoff can for his crime. The article is a SHANDA!!!!

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    Wow what a shame someone actually employed by Agudah has the audacity to write such a nonsense filled article.

    Some people enjoy going against the grain, but this attempt was so inept and illogical its dumb to say the least.

    Bringing in Sully to this was utter nonsense, are you also more proud of Madoff than a random fire fighter who saved a kids life because he didnt express in a newspaper that it was all about g-d?

    The basketball player analogy makes zero sense to this matter.

    PS- I saw an interview with Sully and he is a religious man

    Lets change seats ...
    Lets change seats ...
    14 years ago

    if madoff would have been the piolt ………. (he didnt seem to crae about others)

    if sully would manage the fund ……. (he DID seem to care about others … remember he went twice to the back of the sinking plane to make sure everyone was safe)

    Z
    Z
    14 years ago

    If this article had come out two days earlier I would have assumed it was an April Fools Day joke. I guess every day is April Fools Day for Shafran and the Agudah.

    Moish
    Moish
    14 years ago

    Ohh Geshmack good chap. So you walked around the offices at Agudah telling everyone your daher, and they all told you how gaonis it is, and that it’s mamish emes lahamituy the only issue is to get the reader halt kup.

    One of the dumbest things ever written by anyone ever…period! Anti Torah and Anti G-D too boot.

    Shafran…your’e a completly irrelevant asanine fool!

    si girl
    si girl
    14 years ago

    I think that the scale of the crime does make a difference. Quantity changes the quality and moves it on a different level. From the point of an individual morality there is probably no difference whether the crime is small or big but the results are not the same. This crime changed the mentality and quality of the Jewish Community as a whole.

    In re to the pilot I think that Rabbi is wrong. Yes, pilot was saving his life as well as lives of other people on the plane but it is not just training it is his decision to make an unconventional move and be brave enough to make an extraordinary decision. I think that 99% of heroes belong to that category under the most stressful circumstances.

    bitachon
    bitachon
    14 years ago

    ksheim shemitza lomar davar hanishma
    kach mitzvah shelo lomar davar sheaino nishma
    Would The late Rav Moshe Sherer have written or allowed such an article to be printed?
    Did the rebbe and nasi see this?
    I am to confused to know if I agree or disagree. Thank you.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    Has anyone thought, that what Shafran is trying to do is make a Mussur-like observation (although I don’t believe his role nor his position is for – a mashgiach for the frum world!). But think about what his meesage, putting aside the buzz words/headline making sentences that everyone is taking issue with. Everyone of us who cheats, or tries to cheat, on their taxes is no better than Madoff, he just did a better job (for a while) at it than any of us. The piece is supposed to be introspective, for us, not an opinion on the 2 subjects of the article (Madoff and Sully).

    remove the article
    remove the article
    14 years ago

    huge chilul hashem….. this should not be posted on the web

    Le'afrushei Me'isura
    Le'afrushei Me'isura
    14 years ago

    All these posts are a bizayon. I don’t care what you think about this article, there is absolutely no heter to mevaze a talmid chochom and osek bezorchei tzibor.

    GREAT ARTICLE
    GREAT ARTICLE
    14 years ago

    WOW I have not read such a thought provoking article in a long time. It’s so true yet so disturbibg as seen by many of comments, how it actually touched on a raw nerve, I guess people just feel it’s true and the article is poking at them.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    The torah view: Berney should be sold as a slave and the money that he is sold for shall go to pay off his investors that he ahs stoled moey from. He can be sold to china, he is smart china would pay for him 20,000,000,000 dollars, sounds more creative then rotting in a cell and investors stay bilked.

    Surprised
    Surprised
    14 years ago

    Very suprising from Avi Shgafran. Usually his articles are better worded, and much more logical.

    It happens to be that I personally was very inspired by Captain Sully’s tremendous humility. He downplayed his skills, and was clearly very uncomfortable with all the attention and publicity. In one interview he said that he realized that people feel the need to show him thanks and honor, and he found that it would be rude not to accept it graciously.

    Madoff did not admit his guilt. He was caught.
    Captain “Sully” showed level-headedness, focus, control over his emotions, responsibility (he checked the plane after), and humility. All attributes valued by Judaism. Bernie demonstrated none of these.

    Joseph
    Joseph
    14 years ago

    Wow, I am so shocked at this article!

    Commenter # 1 said it best: “Pathetic, unnecessary lamdus to prove a stupid point.”

    To think Madoff did “teshuva” and “owned up” to his crimes is naive at the very best.

    But what surprised me even more is that he doesn’t call Sully a hero. If Shafran would have been on the plane, would he have said, “Thank you”, or would he have said, “Hey, you had to save your own skin ANYWAYS, so it’s not like you did it for me”? If they would have had frum people on the plane, or some Gedolim from the Moetzes, I have a feeling he would change his tune, even though his point is the same.

    Rabbi Miller ZT’L would say it all depends on intent. A bakery that supplies bread to customers makes itself money that way. But if the owner had in mind he’s bringing food to feed Klal Yisroel and emulating the middah of Hashem that’s “Nosein Lechem L’chol Bosor”, he thereby elevates what he does to a whole new level. The fact that he’s also making money thereby doesn’t negate that. So if this pilot was thinking of others at the same time, which it seems like he was from the interviews and information that came out afterward, then yes, it would make him a hero too. I’m very surprised someone from Agudah, who officially represents frum Yidden, can be so base about something so simple.

    If Shafran was my “life-coach”, a job he advertises to help others, I’d fire him, Donald-Trump style.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    This article is a disgrace. To have an article like this published with the author’s name and photo clearly identifying him as a Jew is a terrible chilul Hashem. What kind of people are we if we accept the insincere self-serving apology of a thief who has ruined people’s lives and fail to express our admiration to someone who saved lives and risked his own life to make sure others were safe?? If the unfortunate, endless phenomenon of Jewish names in the news involved in crimes of dishonesty and worse is not enough, this author apparently feels he has to add to the atmosphere of chilul Hashem.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    Calm down! He is not condoning Madoff’s behavior at all as mentioned several times in the article. He’s just stating some insights regarding his character and how he got to this point. If you just step back a minute and do some thinking before you fly off the handle it may make some sense to you. Whether you agree with it or not – that’s your opinion, and he’s entitled to his just as you are entitled to yours.