First on VIN News
English translation
We hereby notify publicly that Adina bas Avraham, known here in Lakewood by the name Adina Levy, is a proper convert according to Torah law who converted here in the year 5765. After careful scrutiny, testimony by witnesses and various clarifications, it became clear to us that the man to whom she was married misled her, but her conversion was lawful. She remains steadfast in observing the Torah’s mitzvos. We therefore make known that there is a great mitzvah of “loving the stranger” by supporting and assisting her—her and all her children. May G-d Who loves converts bless all those who assist and support her. This notice is only regarding the woman and her children, and not regarding the husband, who is assumed to be a non-Jew. Join our WhatsApp group
Subscribe to our Daily Roundup Email
We hereby affix our signatures below, this day, the eleventh of Nissan, 5758, in Lakewood.
Rabbi Shlomo Eliyahu Miller, Dayan
Rabbi Shmuel Meir Katz, Dayan
Rabbi Chanoch Zaltz, Dayana
Even identifying her as Adina Levy makes no sense.
(1) It is her assumed name;
(2) It perpetuates the myth of his being a Levy; and
(3) It contradicts their conclusion that he is presumed to be a non-Jew.
It is strange that the letter does not state clearly who did the geirus in 5765. Was it them or some other Rabonim ?
What took so long for the Rabonim involved in her geirus to come forward in stating their stand about her status?
I am wondering if they did the geyrus ? From the letter it is not clear if some other Bais Din in Lakewood did it in 5765 and these 3 Rabonim just decided to investigate the issue or whether these were the 3 Rabonim that did the geyrus 3 years ago . .
How can you give out a psak in regards to the mother of the children and not mention a word of what the status of all or part of the children are?
Did they do yhe geirus for the children born before that date in 5765, or was only the mother megayer?
If so, how many children were born before 5765 and how many afterwards?
Either you give us all the facts or nothing, Davar V’Loi Chatzi Davar?!
Obviously she told the second set if Rabbis about her first conversion and they felt it was questionable so they did a new one. That brings forth the issue as to why that same bais din did not also convert the Mr Floyd a second time. Which makes one assume that they were not told he converted in Kansas but rather that he was born Jewish. That brings forth the question that according to R Aloof she converted together with him in Kansas and obviously knew he wasn’t born Jewish. Hopefully there is a good answer to these questions but in my opinion it is in this families best interest to answer thjese questions publicly and get this behind them
i want to show why this woman had two separate conversions on two seperate occasions by two separate rabbis. anybody?
it seems like all the people with answers are cleaning for peasach and not posting today .
The letter posted with this Psak does not address whether or not she deceived anybody . It just states that she was fooled by Mr Floyd .So one of 3 possibilities :
1. These Rabonim hold that even if she deceived people and the Bais Din megayer her ,it does not matter as to the status of her geirus as long as she genuienly meant to be megayer, OR
2.This psak assumes ( based on info they discovered ) she did NOT deceive the Bais Din who mas megayer her , or
3.This psak does not have the facts about any possible deceit ( hard to believe )
With so many obvious questions ,it would make sense for the Rabonim that issued this Psak to share with the public a little of the real facts so as to put to rest legitimate questions based on what is known to us .
You raise a good point. Presumably, the second Bais Din had him give her a kesuba after the second conversion. And if so, we can add that to the number of ways in which she deceived the second bais din, both with respect to his name appearing on the kesubah and his status.
The more we think about it, the less the statement by the Bais Hora’ah that she was duped by her husband and that her 5765 conversion was proper, can be understood.
Are these 3 Rabonim the Bais din that were megayer her in Lakewood a few years ago or are they just 3 people who decided to investigate now and interview the old Bais Din ? If so who were the 3 Rabonim who were involved 3 years ago ?
Why is it Lason Horah to try to understand a psak from 3 Rabbonim and to try to reconcile it with information that the public already knows .
I think it is legitimate to know whether the 3 Rabbonim who decided this issue ,made their psak in spite of having knowledge that she witheld important info about Mr Floyd from the Lakewood Bais din 3 years ago ,or whether they decided that they are convinced she did not withold anything and the facts the way we know them based on these blogs and Rabbi Aloof are not correct . We are certainly entitled to understand their psak in such a crucial halacha like hilchos geirus ,and find out whether they paskened that witholding this info by her was no problem ,or whether it would have been a problem but in reality she did not withold it and we are all just misinformed .
the question is if she needs a get in order to get married
I don’t know where you decided that this is Lashon Horah. These facts are known to thousands of people by virtue of a frum news blog ( that might have been lashon horah and your reading these blogs might be lashin horah ) the people here are not exposing any new facts. They are just interested in understanding the psak of these 3 Rabonnim who decided to pasken this issue , in light of the facts alrerady reported in these blogs and what was stated publicly by Rabbi Aloof on the radio. I don’t know of any issur to try to understand a Ravs psak and reconcile it with facts ( or rumors ) that are known to thousands of people.
Anonymous 10:56 – there is no concept of “the public’s right to know” in Hilchos Lashon Hara. The Beis Din in this situation is in the best position to determine the facts, and has issued a Psak that she is a Jew; that is all that should be publicized. There are obvious issues regarding the children who were born before her Geirus, but that is another issue entirely, and one that anyone trying to set up a Shiduch in the future should be interested in, but that’s it – the pointless gossiping is just that – pointless.
anon 10:56
when the shadchan calls you call up the beis din
Just curious . Who decided that a lakewood bais din should decide the fate of this family?
what happens if down the line another bais din from eretz yisroel or from another state decides that they are both goyim or both yidden, unlike what lakewood paskened. What happens then? Why is lakewood the only one to have a psak on this matter?? just some food for thought!!
Anon 8:48 pm
Your comment about possible. Loshon horah needs to be thought through. This case is certainly in the public domain. While I truly feel sorry for what this poor woman and children are going through I think once this is so public we have a valid right to know the true facts. Eventually her children will want to be meshadech with members of klal yisroel and maybe she herself at some point. I think if your children or grandchildren were involved at some future time you would want to know if there were any facts concealed from the bais din that did her geirus. On the contrary now is the time for her to clear the air so that in the future when it is relevant everybody will say we know exactly what happened and she did nothing wrong. To leave things with such obvious questions as to her knowledge of Floyds behavior prior to her gairus is not oin hert or her childrens best interest. It is in the public domain now and won’t go away until the facts are truly clear.
Anonymous at 8:16 p.m. hit the nail on the head.
She must have known all along:
that he was not really a Mirano;
that he was not really a Levy;
that their names were not Levy but Floyd;
that his conversion was no less dubious than hers;
that he needed a confirming second conversion no less than she;
that without that confirming second conversion his status was unchanged; and
that she was living with a man who was himself living a lie.
If she had made the 5765 bais din aware of *any of* the above, the bais din would not have given her a second conversion.
(The only way the statement of “The Bais Hora’ah of Lakewood” could make any sense is if there were 2 Mrs. Floyds’ – one who studied with and was converted by R. Aloof, who then never showed up in Lakewood with Mr. Floyd a/k/a Mr. Levy, and a second Mrs. Floyd who also had a questionable conversion with a rabbi other than R. Aloof. This possibility is so improbable that it has to be rejected.)
Amazing!!!
I’m no posek, but it is probably loshon hora to say anything about what Mrs. Levy said or withheld. If someone as big as R’ Miller says she was misled, then who are we to question it? If we continue to say things about her, then we are also guilty of embarrassing and hurting a convert.
Although it may not be my business but I wonder about the following : Rabbi Aloof stated she converted together with him in Kansas several years prior to her Geyrus a second time in Lakewood . If that is true ,she obviously knew he was not Jewish prior to that . I assume ( although I may be wrong ) that she did not tell the Lakewood Bais Din that was megar her , of the fact that he was not Jewish previously because if she had told them ,they would have required him to convert again lchumrah .If so ,then she knowingly lived with a Husband whom she knew had a Kansas conversion that she probably knew might not be truly considered a Yehudi by mainstream Orthdoxy . I hope and assume there is a good answer to this obvious question based on facts known to the Bais Horaah,which are not known to us
when you start discrediting ORTHODOX rabbi’s you better be careful. If he isn’t good enough to convert this man then your calling into question every shalileh or every gerirus or every decision he ever made. A very dangerous scary move.
The bottom line here is that the Lakewood community is embarrassed by this and are trying to wish this away by making him a goy. the problem then remains, what about her? So they give her a pass. It doesn’t work that way, sorry.
April 16, 2008 7:03 PM
The issue is not so much about the Rabbi . I dont think you will find too many Orthodox Rabbis even of the most Modern Orthodox ,who will use 2 individuals who are members of a temple without a mechitza ,and whose credentials are to quote Rabbi Aloof “that they are elders of the community who we rely on ,Yodea Sefer ” to be considered dayanim in something as serious as a gerus . We are not talking a din Torah for 500 dollars where you could make a case that the parties accept them . Having said that I know nothing about them and maybe they are not what they seem to be but real Talmidei Chachomim and Shomrei mitzvah ,but I suspect that until proven otherwise the average congregant in Wichita Kansas in a Temple withoutr a mechitzah does not qualify until poroven otherwise . That ( among other reasons ) is why the Bais Din states he is “muchzak as Eino Yehudi . They dont say they know for sure ,only that the status quo until proven otherwise says that he definitely was an Eino Yehudi and needs to bring clear evidence that that staus quo changed ,which at this point ,there doesn’t seem to be .
R’ Greenblat only vouched that Rabbi Aloof has in fact semicha, but in no way did rabbi greenblatt state that he knows anything about this conversion.
VIN is first to report the news again!! (IN 3 days from now youll see another web sight reporting the news and claiming they are first). I hope people who were gossiping about this poor women will have the guts to ask her mechila.
Obviously the Bais Din that converted her 3 years ago believed at the time that he was a Yid and a Bal Tshivah . This doesnt answer the fact that supposedly she knew he was a Goy so how could she have misled the Bais din about hs conversion in Kansas . Something is definitely fishy but we obviously dont know the whole story . I hope that the Bais Din really does
How can she have converted 3 years ago, yet at the same time be “misled” if she was married to him for longer than that? (They have 4 kids-do the math)
i hope that CBS NEWS wont report this story again
when you start discrediting ORTHODOX rabbi’s you better be careful. If he isn’t good enough to convert this man then your calling into question every shalileh or every gerirus or every decision he ever made. A very dangerous scary move.
The bottom line here is that the Lakewood community is embarrassed by this and are trying to wish this away by making him a goy. the problem then remains, what about her? So they give her a pass. It doesn’t work that way, sorry.
What ever happened to the Rabbi from Texas (who R’ Efraim Greenblatt vouched for) who said he was megayer them in 2002???
Why are you assuming they were both converted at the same time . Although I have no personal knowledge , the rumor mill had it several weeks ago that she went through a Geirus in Lakewood several years ago and in fact this Letter seems to confirm that the Lakewood Bais Din converted her . As for him he claimed he was always a Jew so they did not convert him and is dependent on whatever really happened in Kansas with all the issues regarding his intent and the Rabbi therre and the 2 so called other Dayanim that the Rabbi stated were elders of the community “yode Sefer ” to quote him which doesnt sound so promising as to their kashrus for Dayanus .
Anon 6:32pm
Not necessarily. If the bes din evaluates his motive AT THE TIME OF GEIRUS to be lacking, they could very well invalidate the geirus retroactively.
Is there an tzedakkah or address where we can send donations to help her out and be zoche in this great mitzvah?? I’m sure she can use assistance at this point!
I’m sorry but that makes no sense. I give them credit for doing the right thing in publicizing that she is a Jew, but they were both converted the same way, through the same people. We are usually even more strict when it comes to a Shaileh of a woman possibly not being a proper Ger. So if SHE was deemed a proper Ger then he HAS to be a Ger.
I Would like to ask everybody not to write any comments vd”l
just her, not him – they say he’s not a jew.
kosher jew
To the English speaking community of America, ENGLISH PLEASE
It’s about time- All those know- it- alls- saying he was/is a Jew. Now they have to ask mechilah to us for all their name calling, saying- we were over loshon hora etc., etc. BTW, I didn’t notice one negative or derogatory blog on VIN or other sites with regards to his wife or children.